Comments on: MSTI’s 2009 in Review: First Base

By: The Fury

The Fury — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:06:06 +0000

Matt – I doubt you’ll ever see this, but how can you think wins are a worthless stat but RBI’s arent? They’re both contingent on your team setting up a certain situation despite you. You can have a bullpen that blows every single one of a pitcher’s possible wins and you can have guys who always make outs before a certain hitter comes up to the plate, leading to 0 wins and 0 RBI’s, respectively, but that doesn’t speak to the quality of the pitcher or hitter at all. The point is, if you always come to the plate with runners on base and you’re a major league hitter, you’re going to get hits and you’re going to drive in runs. The more opportunities you get, the more chance something will fall for a hit and a run will be scored. So yes, RBI’s are a worthless stat.

By: Matt

Matt — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 14:28:46 +0000

RBIs is a worthless stat according to you. With Loney its a product of his ability to hit with runners in scoring position. Last I check this is a team sport. A worthless stat is wins for a pitcher not whether a hitter drives in runs, especially when he doesnt homer much. Totally disagree.

By: dsheridan88

dsheridan88 — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:23:09 +0000

Wow….
Ok. I truly didn’t think you would take “Plaschke-Billingsley-itis” that hard. Speaks volumes about what we all really think of our lovable Times columnist…
Yeah, I made the mistake of lumping you in with the site. Rookie mistake. You are responding to MSTI, not writing on behalf of it. Ok. I am sorry for that.

So that means I was responding to their grade of F for Martin, which in my mind is more than a bit over reactive.
“He done it before” is a direct reference to being an all-star and a plus bat. The Dodgers aren’t paying him all that much yet, and I believe it way too early to write off a player of his age, demeanor, and connection to the organization. Sure, if some incredible deal presented itself…but when is that going to happen? By giving him an F, MSTI was in effect saying that the catcher position is hurting the team. And even THIS PAST YEAR, I just don’t see it.

All that said, come next year at this time, I would be less ready to jump in on his behalf if there weren’t signs of more. But I’m just not there yet. A little closer than I am with James Loney, but not much.

And for the record: you are the one who said 30 hr…. And I take from your answer that my more modest proposal – 15 HR, back up around .275, more RBI, would do the trick just fine. I feel that is completely possible.

By: Mike Scioscia's tragic illness

Mike Scioscia's tragic illness — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:44:42 +0000

These grades are entirely about my personal expectations. That’s the whole point. And while I agree that not everyone can have a big hitter at first, the fact that we DON’T means that our 1B isn’t as good as everyone else’s. Hence the lesser grade.

By: Mike Scioscia's tragic illness

Mike Scioscia's tragic illness — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:43:51 +0000

But the problem is, RBI’s are a completely worthless stat. They have no bearing on how good a player is. None. RBI’s rely on your teammates to be on base in front of you, and the Dodgers had an excellent OBP group this year.

I don’t see the problem with giving Loney a C, for “average”. He had a decent year, but that made him one of the lesser 1B in baseball.

By: Matt

Matt — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:36:13 +0000

your personal expectations should be thrown out the window when objectively giving a player grades. Not everyone can have a big hitter at 1st just like not everyone can have matt kemp in center. everything is a give and take especially with Jamie Mccourt’s european vacations.

By: Matt

Matt — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:32:59 +0000

Im sorry I resent the grade ur giving loney. He led the team in RBIs and he has consistently been an RBI producer again this year. While the long ball is nice its quite overrated esp in a post steroid era (bullshit in itself I know – ya thats right pujols apologists). Dodgers were one of the leaders in run production this year for the most part without a ton of long balls. Loney was a big part of this being probably their third best hitter. Manny being their 5th best hitter behind blake. Sorry people living in 2008. So a C for a teams more consistent hitter that made it to the NLCS the 2 years he was a starter. Now thats almost as self indulgent as the F you gave martin, who still has one of the better eyes and is more patient as a hitter then most of the team. Add to that his above average defense and that he is a CATCHER. Even now a lot of teams in the league would love to have Martin where a coach might not put so much on him. Torre is the problem not Martin.

By: The Fury

The Fury — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 04:46:17 +0000

Dear dsheridan88,
First of all, I’d like it if you’d refrain from personally attacking me by saying that “I’m coming down with Plaschke-Billingsley-itis”. I, at no point in our discussion, resorted to name-calling or attacking you personally. Secondly, I didn’t say a thing about Martin’s defense being good or bad. If my only sin was omission, then I’m sorry I didn’t bring that up, I just assumed saying nothing about it meant that I thought his defense was just fine. Also, I was clearly exaggerating when I set that ridiculous line of 30 HR’s, and a .300/.400/.500 stat line, because he’s never once hit over .300, and the closest he’s come to that was in 2007, which is the year that I referenced as being maybe his career year, we don’t know yet. But if he’s never hit 20 HR’s, I don’t expect him to suddenly hit 30. And I never gave him a grade, so I’m not sure what it is that you’re referring to when you say, “if he crept up to .275 and had 15 homers, you would probably have to adjust your ridiculously low grade more than you should have to…” was this directed at myself or MSTI? Lastly, “he’s done it before” is a pretty bad reference for future success. You can say that about a lot of players, especially former All-Stars, but that doesn’t mean they’re going to automatically give you that kind of production ever again. Say what you want about he’s got the tools, but a three year downward trend is very alarming, even if he is a young player.

P.S. What exactly do you mean “he’s done it before”? Done what?

By: dsheridan88

dsheridan88 — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 00:00:37 +0000

A couple of things in Martin’s defense:
1. There is certainly less than universal consent on your comments about his defense. From Memories of Kevin Malone:
In previous catcher defense studies that I believe are the best we’re going to see in a while, Martin has proven to be one of the better defenders in the league, and I didn’t see much this year that dissuades me from continuing to go with that evaluation.
2. Setting the bar at 30 hrs is not a realistic standard of an “I-found-it-again” year at the plate. More power, more ability to hit a fastball, yes. But be honest….if he crept up to .275 and had 15 homers, you would probably have to adjust your ridiculously low grade more than you should have to…
3. HE’S DONE IT BEFORE. To me, that makes me more likely to believe he could do it again. Oh yeah, HE IS 27 YEARS OLD!!! I think you are coming down with Plaschke-Billingsley-itis.

By: bayareadfan

bayareadfan — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:47:19 +0000

I like the 85 Topps theme, it was my first year collecting baseball cards after all. I wonder if the Gooden RC is worth anything these days?

As for Loney, we’re kinda stuck hoping the mouthguard issue actually meant something, or that Loney finally figures it out next season. He did put up .900 OPS numbers early in his career, was that just luck?