Dotel For McDonald & Lambo: The Dodgers Just Got a Lot Older
July 31, 2010 at 5:18 pm | Posted in Andrew Lambo, James McDonald, Octavio Dotel, Ryan Theriot, Ted Lilly | 31 Comments
As you’ve no doubt heard (and mourned about) by now, the Dodgers traded James McDonald and Andrew Lambo to the Pirates for reliever Octavio Dotel. This one really came out of nowhere, and I’ve having a hell of a hard time processing it.
Let’s start with the slight positive outlook here: Dotel could help the bullpen. I looked at him when scouting the reliever market a few weeks ago, and I didn’t hate the idea at the time:
Dotel has a little over $1m coming to him for the rest of the season and a $4.5m mutual option for 2011, but he’s been surprisingly effective for someone who’s been kicking around for so long. I know, the 4.89 ERA doesn’t seem like much, but that’s in large part due to a horrendous April (ER allowed in six games in a row). Since May 1, he’s saved 16 of 19 with a 2.81 ERA and a .184 batting average against, while striking out more than 10 per 9.
The perpetually rebuilding Pirates have All-Star Evan Meek and former Dodger Joel Hanrahan ready to take over in their bullpen, so you wouldn’t think they’d be dying to hold on to the 36-year-old Dotel all that badly.
I have to be honest, I don’t really hate the idea of tossing Dotel in for the late innings, assuming the price was reasonable.
You’ll note that last part – “assuming the price was reasonable” – but more on that in a second. Dotel was useful as a Pirate, and he’s got five straight scoreless outings in which he’s struck out six without a walk. He’s still striking out more than 10 per 9, and he won’t be asked to be the closer in Los Angeles, so if you’re asking me if the bullpen is better now than it was yesterday – yes, I think it is. Dotel along with Jonathan Broxton, Hong-Chih Kuo, & Kenley Jansen (along with maybe Ronald Belisario) could be a pretty decent bullpen.
But the price seems out of whack. Dotel’s okay, but he’s not that good. McDonald was the two-time Dodger minor league pitcher of the year, and he doesn’t turn 26 until after the season. While his attempts at starting in the bigs haven’t been all that successful, he’s proven himself to be a viable arm out of the bullpen. In 48 career games out of the pen, he’s held opponents to a 2.71 ERA while striking out more than twice as many as he walked. Almost as importantly, he’s under team control until after 2015.
And then there’s Andrew Lambo, and let’s get the obvious out of the way first. Yes, he was suspended for 50 games in the minors this year, but no, it wasn’t for steroids or PEDs. It was for marijuana, and while I’m certainly not standing behind his intelligence, let’s not pretend he was cheating or shooting up heroin, either.
There’s a lot to like about Lambo, and a lot to dislike as well. Baseball Prospectus said this about him in their 2010 annual:
This 2007 fourth-rounder came into the year considered to be the best pure hitter in the system thanks to a combination of bat speed and raw strength. He was also the system’s most advanced prospect for his age, reaching Double-A as a 20-year-old, and spending 2009 as the league’s fourth-youngest hitting prospect. Despite a hot start at Chattanooga (.321/.383/.548 in April), Lambo soon went Arctic, batting just .243/.295/.377 the rest of the way as his plate discipline suffered and his power failed to develop. His odd reverse platoon split persisted, as he batted just .241/.299/.388 against righties. Lacking in speed, athleticism, and defensive ability, Lambo will only go so far as his bat takes him, and right now, that appears to be back to Chattanooga.
It’s important to note that he doesn’t even turn 22 until a few weeks from now, and lines like “best pure hitter in the system thanks to a combination of bat speed and raw strength” are quite tasty. Before his suspension this year, he was off to a great start, hitting .342/.390/.566 at AA. He’s now down to .271/.325.420, but it requires a but more digging than that. He obviously started slowly in his return from that layoff, but he’s warming up, with hits in 9 of his last 10 games.
Maybe, as some have noted, the defense isn’t there, and if he’s forced to move to 1B that would obviously hurt his chances, and it’s hard to ignore his trouble staying away from the weed. Still, he’s a 21-year-old who’s shown success at AA, and when you pair him with a 25-year-old who’s shown success at the MLB level, and you trade them for a decent-but-not-great 36-year-old reliever, it’s not hard to see why the future for this team looks bleaker by the day.
ESPN’s Keith Law, by the way, agrees:
The Pirates get an absolute steal of a return on Octavio Dotel by getting two out-of-favor prospects from the Dodgers, a situation where if only one pans out they still see a significant gain.
James MacDonald has a very strong minor league track record despite a fringe-average fastball when he works as a starter, but has a plus changeup and an above-average slow curve that both can miss bats and allow him to work backwards. The Dodgers threw him right into the fire in 2009, he struggled (unsurprisingly), and they gave up on him, which is the Pirates’ good fortune.
Outfielder Andrew Lambo just came off a 50-game suspension for drug use — hey, it doesn’t make him a bad guy — and he’s an indifferent outfielder, but he’s got the potential for an above-average offensive profile. He is strong, with good feel for the bat but the plate discipline of a guy who hasn’t played much and was handled strangely before the suspension. There’s enough potential there given his age (21) and inexperience that the Pirates are right to want to gamble on him.
As for Dotel, he throws mostly fastballs and doesn’t have the plus command you want to see in a guy who’s coming with the same thing four pitches out of five. He’s a fine guy to have in your middle relief corps but no one for whom you want to give up two young players, even if you’ve already given up on them yourself.
Can’t argue with any of that.
******
Here’s what really bothers me, though. In the last few days, the Dodgers have traded James McDonald, Blake DeWitt, Andrew Lambo, Lucas May, Kyle Smit, Elisaul Pimentel, and Brett Wallach.
They’ve acquired Ted Lilly, Ryan Theriot, Scott Podsednik, and Octavio Dotel – basically, a decent but not vital starter, a lousy middle infielder, a mediocre outfielder, and a decent veteran reliever, and all over 30.
Now, most of the baseball community has spent an enormous amount of time lately laughing at the Diamondbacks and Astros for the seemingly meager hauls they pulled in for Dan Haren and Roy Oswalt. You’re telling me that some combination of the players the Dodgers just traded couldn’t have pulled in one of those guys? Alternatively, is there really anyone who wouldn’t have preferred Haren or Oswalt rather than the collection of mediocre, over-30 veterans they just pulled in?
Yet despite all the moves, the offense – the biggest problem – didn’t get improved, and arguably was made worse. That’s supposed to help propel the team to October how, exactly? Really, what a terrible day all around.
******
Back to the Lilly deal for a second, this tweet from the Chicago Sun-Times isn’t going to make you feel better:
Lilly says not ”overly excited about it,” despite looking forward to battling for a playoff spot.
Nor will the fact that urbandictionary.com actually has a name for Theriot’s base-running exploits:
TOOTBLAN. Acronym for Thrown Out On The Basepaths Like A Nincompoop. Baseball statistic invented for Ryan Theriot of the Chicago Cubs, for his penchant for ill-advised steal attempts and general lack of skill running bases.
Theriot’s current TOOTBLAN number is 19.
That was popularized by Cubs blog Wrigleyville23, who really ought to know about such things.
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Comment by Chad Moriyama— July 31, 2010 #
Not to mention we got $3M cash. Should keep the light on during games.
Comment by 80asg— July 31, 2010 #
You and I had very similar posts.
I don’t say hate much, but I hate this trade. Could’ve gotten a lot more for McDonald/Lambo
Comment by dingers— July 31, 2010 #
Good point on the ages, btw.
Just to add a little: Manny, Lilly and Podsednik are all FAs, Dotel too if he/Dodgers decline option. There’s a good chance the Dodgers end up with 4 draft picks next year if Lee doesn’t sign and even more if Dotel/Pods are offered arb and turn it down.
Comment by dingers— July 31, 2010 #
You’re not wrong, but we’ve seen the club avoids offering arb whenever they can. I assume you meant “Lilly” rather than “Lee”, but I’d be surprised if the Dodgers offer arb to any of them.
Comment by Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— July 31, 2010 #
no, I meant Zach Lee. If they don’t sign him, they get the draft pick at that slot next year, no?
And yeah, that’s still a concern, but I’m grasping for reasons to be positive :(
Comment by dingers— July 31, 2010 #
Oh, right. They did actually take on some salary today. No way they sign him.
Comment by Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— July 31, 2010 #
I love James as a MR. I really don’t get this one. I don’t really see the club making it in to the playoffs. When will new ownership take over.
Comment by ramo— July 31, 2010 #
I had to chime in… here’s my take…
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/427885-dont-ask-dotel-at-least-dodgers-land-theriot-feel-better-fans?just_published=1
Comment by Phil Fountain— July 31, 2010 #
Only things left to look forward to are the McDivorce and Fireworks Night
Comment by DodgersKings323— July 31, 2010 #
I’m not hard on for the Dotel trade,it would be decent if we traded away a nobody straight up..but McDonald is not a loss at all..people need to understand just because you have “”"”POTENTIAL”"”" doesn’t mean you’ll actually live up to it..McDonald was given the same opportunity tons of other pitchers have been given and failed..he was too shaky as a reliever and atrocious as a starter..he was a spot starter,middle reliever at best..Lambo was a bad move,he had some upside and considering we have little prospects at outfield it would have made sense to keep him and let him grow up.
Comment by thiago silva— July 31, 2010 #
I feel the trade wasn’t bad it just wasn’t a huge gain for a team going now where quickly. Ned is doing the best he can.
Comment by ramo— July 31, 2010 #
The team was going and, after today, it’s getting there faster.
Comment by WBB— July 31, 2010 #
I meant, the team was going nowhere and, after today, it’s getting there faster.
Comment by WBB— July 31, 2010 #
So what’s gonna be your excuse for Broxton this time, Mike? That fat, useless P.O.S. has blown the 4 most crucial Dodger games of the season: game 3 vs. NYY, the finale of a 4 game sweep in StL, and now TWO games against the division rival Giants. He’s completely useless and shattered under a pressure situation.
Comment by Higgins— July 31, 2010 #
Torre uses him not enough and too much and the same time. He can’t do four out saves. Nothing wrong with it but he can’t. When he is in for one inning he is one of the top three closers in baseball.
Comment by ramo— July 31, 2010 #
I’m not defending him tonight, though I would like to know how the game against the Yankees – who we aren’t fighting for a playoff berth – qualifies as “crucial”.
Comment by Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— July 31, 2010 #
But am I wrong about the four out save. I mean we have Jansen. What is wrong with a 1/3 of an appearance? Why does he stretch MR but SP he pulls instantly.
Comment by ramo— July 31, 2010 #
I am convinced Torre has a pitching change incentive clause in his contract. That’s the only justification for removing the unhittable Kuo when he did.
Comment by WBB— July 31, 2010 #
broxton does need a third pitch. he cant just keep going with the same fastball with no movement and occasionally throw a slider. guys are sitting on his fastball.
this the time that our useless coaching staff actually do something and teach him how to throw a third pitch.
plus hes clearly overworked and hasnt been the same since the yankee game debacle since june 27th where he threw like 50 pitches.
Comment by format— July 31, 2010 #
can the dodgers at least spare us the torture of having to watch another two months of the automatic out?
kuo lifetime batting average-.192
auto out 2010-.184
Comment by format— July 31, 2010 #
TOOTBLAN – Great! A poor man’s Steve Sax
Comment by TROBOB— July 31, 2010 #
I’d really be pi**ed about losing McD and Lambo if I didn’t know that the America we’ve known is done and gone by the end of the year.
Comment by Logan— August 1, 2010 #
No, that’s not until 2012
/Mayan’d
Comment by The Dude Abides— August 1, 2010 #
Even without Lilly and Kuroda the payroll for 2011 is already above $90 mil so forget about next year.
Comment by Ken— August 1, 2010 #
Good review of the situation at:
http://www.laobserved.com/intell/2010/07/dodgers_at_the_deadline.php
Comment by Wes Parker— August 1, 2010 #
Well if we forget who we gave up for all these mediocre players. I am least hoping that Dotel will have some positive impact. If Brox can come around, we now have 4 good setup and closer guys. However for maximum effect if we can get rid of the 3 worst Belliard, Sherril and Garout, then maybe some progress can be made.
Comment by Davids— August 1, 2010 #
[...] Hey, that Dotel for James McDonald (20/4 K/BB in 17.2 Pirate innings) and Andrew Lambo (.904 OPS in 61 minor league Pirate plate appearances) deal looking now? Oh, that’s right. Just as bad as it did from the moment it was made. [...]
Pingback by Hong-Chih Kuo Doesn’t Have the Heart of a Winner « Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— August 16, 2010 #
[...] with every terrible Dotel appearance and every quality James McDonald start for the Pirates. I hated this deal from the moment it was made, but that was because I thought the pricetag was far too high. [...]
Pingback by Not a Good Night For Management « Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— August 19, 2010 #
[...] and Lambo. As I said, I’m not going to focus too much on that here, but as you remember, I hated it at the time, and it didn’t get better when I looked at national and Pittsburgh [...]
Pingback by MSTI’s 2010 in Review: Relievers, Part 3 « Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— November 11, 2010 #
[...] and a pile of crap. If you were going to trade all that, shouldn’t you have received more? This bothered me at the time… In the last few days, the Dodgers have traded James McDonald, Blake DeWitt, Andrew Lambo, [...]
Pingback by MSTI’s 2010 in Review: Management « Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— November 26, 2010 #