Should Ivan DeJesus Get a Shot at the 2B Job?
October 28, 2010 at 11:38 am | Posted in Ivan DeJesus | 44 Comments
We’re taking a one-day break from season reviews to point out that Ivan DeJesus is off to a hot start for Don Mattingly’s Phoenix Devil Dogs of the AFL, hitting .370/.433/.593 with a homer in seven games. Granted, seven games is a meaningless sample size, and that minimal impact is lessened even further when you’re talking about a fall league of varying competition, so let’s not put too much stock into that stat line. That said, the opportunity to play directly for the new manager of the big club provides a chance to make an impression beyond the numbers.
For his part, DeJesus’ goal is clear:
“I need to be ready in Spring Training,” he said, “and get that job at second base.”
That’s what he wants, of course, but the more pertinent question for us is, is that what we want? Among the many holes the Dodgers have headed into 2011, second base is perhaps the largest. I’ve been through the horrendousness of non-tender candidate Ryan Theriot more than once, and Jamey Carroll shouldn’t be seen as a full-time option at the position. With Blake DeWitt in Chicago, the trade market largely barren beyond Dan Uggla (who’s likely to be priced beyond the Dodgers’ reach), and the free agent market not offering much (and no, Orlando Hudson will not be returning), there’s clearly an opportunity for DeJesus to make his mark.
First, some background: DeJesus was drafted as a shortstop in the 2nd round of the 2005 draft, a pick the Dodgers received as compensation for losing Adrian Beltre to Seattle. Most reviews of him – both predraft and during his first two seasons – mentioned above-average glovework and good on-base skills, but worried about a total lack of power. He largely lived up (?) to those preconceptions between 2005-07, not once generating an OPS over .800 due to puny slugging numbers, but showing encouragingly improving OBP, with marks of .354, .361, and .371 during those years.
In 2008 at AA Jacksonville, DeJesus had a true breakthrough year despite not turning 21 until May, making him one of the youngest players in the league. His .324/.419/.423 line got him a spot in the Futures Game during the All-Star Break and earned him the Dodgers’ 2008 Minor League Player of the Year title.
Heading into 2009, hopes were high. Baseball America had him as the #6 Dodger prospect, while Baseball Prospectus had him at #2 thanks to some kind words:
De Jesus has an excellent chance to outdo his father, a glove-first shortstop who spent 15 years in the majors, and Junior’s pedigree certainly factors into a basic baseball intelligence that raises every aspect of his game. For the second year in a row, his stock rose, and he earned the organization’s Minor League Player of the Year honors for his season at Jacksonville. Though he doesn’t project for much power, Ivan the Younger is a patient, contact-oriented hitter who works the count and sprays line drives to all fields. He’s a strong defender as well, with steady hands, good range, and a solid arm; some feel that second base may be his ultimate destination even with Hu’s fall from grace.
With Orlando Hudson signed for just one season and Rafael Furcal always at risk of injury, the hope was that DeJesus would continue to progress at AAA in 2009, and challenge for a middle infield job in 2010. Those were hopes were dashed when he broke his leg sliding into home during a spring game in early March, costing him the entire season (save for four late season rookie-league games).
The injury was serious enough that he had to be shut down during winter ball in Puerto Rico, and he was still feeling pain during this year’s camp, despite proclaiming himself healthy. Now more of a second baseman than a shortsop, 2010 was seen as a big test, and DeJon Watson had plenty of nice things to say about him in a March interview with Baseball Prospectus, who also claimed he had the “best plate discipline in the system”.
Depending on how you look at it, 2010 (.296/.335/.405) was either a step backwards or a nice comeback. His OPS dropped 100 points from 2008, mainly because while he struck out exactly as often as he did in 2008 (81 times), his walks dropped by more than half from 76 to 32. On the other hand, he’d missed over a year with a serious injury, jumped up a level, and still hit nearly .300 while setting a career high in doubles (33) and tying his high in homers (7).
That said, not in DeJesus’ favor is that he didn’t receive a September callup alongside fellow infielders Russ Mitchell, Chin-lung Hu, and John Lindsey. At the time, Ken Gurnick mentioned it in an mlb.com article:
Clubs send a message with the players they call up in September. For the Dodgers, the most glaring omission from the list of callups is second baseman Ivan DeJesus Jr., who hit .299 with 89 runs scored and 70 RBIs at Triple-A Albuquerque after missing the entire 2009 season with a broken leg suffered in Spring Training.
DeJesus was drafted in the second round in 2005 as a shortstop, but he played second base this year, and scouts say his range and footwork around the bag need improvement, perhaps the aftereffects of the injury.
Sources also claim that DeJesus, the son of longtime Major Leaguer Ivan DeJesus, is in the doghouse because he has yet to grasp some of the subtleties of teamwork and game approach. He is scheduled to play in the Arizona Fall League.
So what say you? I’ve seen it suggested in several places that DeJesus ought to be given a real chance to win the 2011 second base job, but I’m not so sure. He’s still quite young (won’t be 24 until May), and he’s only had one year as a full-time second baseman, which is important, judging by the scouting comments from the Gurnick article. Another year in ABQ’s high-offense environment, another year off the injury, and another year refining his 2B fundamentals don’t seem like a bad idea at all to me, and if he can parlay that into a late-season call-up, then you give him a shot in 2012 – when he’ll still be just 25.
Still, someone has to play 2B, and it absolutely cannot be Theriot, who may make nearly $4m in arbitration. You can either pay a comparable cost to get better (though not star-level) production than Theriot, or you can get Theriot-level performance for about 25% of that cost. So if DeJesus continues to impress Mattingly in Arizona, and completely tears up the spring, then sure, I wouldn’t be upset to see him there. I just think that it’s probably better for both him and the team to get a stop-gap solution at second base (not that there’s a ton of options, but it’s not hard to do better than Theriot) with an eye towards DeJesus later in the year or the year after.
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De Jesus should be given a chance. It’s another thing whether or not he actually gets that chance. I agree with you that Theriot as the everyday 2B would be horrific. And like you said, it’d save some money to invest in another position upgrade.
It just seems like the Dodgers don’t give young guys a chance when there are “established” veterans in place (Carroll, possibly Theriot).
Another year in AAA couldn’t hurt, though. The last time the Dodgers tried to hand the 2B job to a rookie was with Joe Thurston, and that failed miserably.
“That said, you still need someone to play 2B, and it absolutely cannot be Theriot.”
Regardless of what happens, this is 100 percent accurate.
Comment by Dustin Nosler— October 28, 2010 #
“but it’s not hard to do better than Theriot”
Not for you or I maybe but unfortunately it’s Ned who is choosing players. I may be wrong but didn’t the Dodgers have a deal in place for Lilly already but added DeWitt to the mix in order to get Theriot? If that’s true, I have a feeling we’re going to be subjected to another season filled with TOOTBLAN’s.
Comment by Wil— October 28, 2010 #
No, I don’t think that’s true as far as how the Lilly deal came together.
Comment by Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— October 28, 2010 #
No, I think Wil’s right, I remember hearing something about the deal with Lilly already being in place before Coletti decided to throw in DeWitt to get Theriot.
Comment by Jorge— October 28, 2010 #
That makes the De Witt-for-Theriot inanity even worse. I thought the Cubs wanted to dump payroll along with Theriot’s weak all-around play, and now it turns that Colletti made the Cubs’ day, and threw away De Witt for an older and worse Theriot.
I’m beginning to wonder who is Dodger Enemy #1 really is, McCourt or Mr Ned?
Comment by Native Angeleno— October 28, 2010 #
The common perception is that Ned called asking for Lilly. Hendry asked for DeWitt. Ned said fine, but we need someone to play 2B. Hendry said take Theriot. Boom! We suck at 2B.
Comment by Gary— October 29, 2010 #
Here’s what I was thinking of. They don’t say what the deal would have been if DeWitt was not involved.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100731&content_id=12851156&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp&c_id=la
Comment by Wil— October 29, 2010 #
I almost think you have to give him a chance at 2B….kind of a “his job to lose” going into Spring Training. This team will do nothing if they sign washed up veterans like Theriot under the guise of retooling. They need to spend what little money they have wisely on impact players and hope young guns like DeJesus can mature quickly. Since there are no reasonable impact players at 2B that the Dodgers can acquire, DeJesus seems to be best of a lot of mediocre options at that position. Give the kid a chance.
Comment by Mickey Hatcher— October 28, 2010 #
And if he falls flat on his face like the Angels did with Brandon Wood, what then? It’s a nice thought in theory, but if he struggles at the major league level on a team already desperate for offense, this could be disastrous, even if we aren’t necessarily contending next year.
Comment by Jorge— October 28, 2010 #
Correction, they are the Desert Dogs.
Comment by ElbertFan— October 28, 2010 #
I would like him to be plan B. I would go with Juan Uribe. However, if he has great winter league and spring training then I think you can make room for him.
Comment by ramo— October 28, 2010 #
Uribe might get re-signed by the Giants if their World Series dreams come true.
Comment by Omer— October 28, 2010 #
Let’s hope that is the case, since Uribe will regress
Comment by Kevin— October 28, 2010 #
I wouldn’t hold my breath on the Giants resigning Uribe. Sabean says the payroll stays the same and he has to pay increases in salary to Lincecum, Cain, Wilson and Sanchez. Plus, Rowand, Zito and DeRosa are still on the books. Then he has arbitration for Sanchez and has to decide whether to keep Ross, Burrell, Huff and half of his bullpen. Uribe is likely a casualty of the numbers game.
That being said, unless Frank gets the team through Judge Gordon’s decision and then gets an infusion of cash from Fox, our payroll will not increase enough to sign a guy like Uribe. It is very likely we will troll for stiffs like Jose Lopez. Giving De Jesus a fair shot might be the plan. Let’s face it, we could be very bad in ’11.
Comment by Grabarkewitz— October 29, 2010 #
Uribe has looked pretty good in the post season. I hope that doesn’t drive his price up based on a ridiculously small sample.
Comment by Dave— October 28, 2010 #
I fear Mr Ned drools over Giants detritus. And that we could be stuck with a .220-hitting Uribe for 4 years. This is the genius who repeatedly throws big money at washed-up has-beens achieving flash in the pan success on a big stage, a fluke, as Uribe is at the moment. Ned has proven he suffers from long-term attention deficit, pouncing on the most recent achievement in the face of obvious decline, age and temporary good luck.
Someone, please, tell me Ned will not go after Uribe and get him, while the Giants laugh at us for years in the miserable future.
Comment by Native Angeleno— October 29, 2010 #
4 years – no of course not. But for one year (MAYBE two)? You can do worse than plus defense and good power.
Comment by Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— October 29, 2010 #
I don’t want ANY more Giants retread has-beens on their way out, thankyouverymuch. I’d rather see de Jesus stumble and grow.
Comment by Native Angeleno— October 29, 2010 #
I agree with MSTI on this one, DeJesus should be given another year at AAA (maybe he could be called up mid-summer due to necessity). If the Dodgers are serious about contending in 2011 they have to get better production from 2B, LF, 1B and Catcher. We could take that $4 mil that would be due to Theriot in arbitration and go trade for Scutaro. We need a good veteran up the middle for another year or two until DeJesus and Dee Gordon are ready to play in the bigs.
Comment by Mike H— October 28, 2010 #
The MLB article claims he wasn’t called up because of ‘attitude” issues. If my memory is correct, a reason cited for his non-call up in September was the fact that they wanted to give him some rest before the fall league, especially after he had the injury and played the full season.
Comment by Louis— October 28, 2010 #
De Jesus given a shot at 2nd. Well now . . .
Could be. But as the divorce stuff surfaces and we know if McCourt will still be the owner and then what kind of funds will the ceiling be placed at for the Dodgers, then we can better see the real situation.
I want no more than 2 soft spots in the batting order of the 8 starters on the field.
Right now I see soft spots at 3B with Blake, and LF with you name him. That does not leave 2B for another spot.
The problem is if you place Blake 7th, and catcher 8th, followed by a pitcher 9th — that is three soft spots. But add another, 2b say in the 2 hole — and if Furcal has a bad day — could be 7-8-9-1-2 all soft.
If the Dodgers get a strong bat for LF and even another at 3B — then find.
Oh, where oh where is Jeff Kent when you need him!!!
Comment by Anew— October 28, 2010 #
Washing his truck.
Comment by Bill Grabarkewitz— October 29, 2010 #
Reading his dirt bike magazines
Comment by The Dude Abides— October 29, 2010 #
Talking shit about Vin Scully.
Comment by Alireza— October 30, 2010 #
Laughing his ass off because the media and the managers jumped on his anti-Kemp bandwagon.
Comment by DodgersKings323— November 1, 2010 #
While I am all for giving DeJesus a chance, I think you are being too hard on Theriot, a fine fielder, an outstanding bunter (something too few Dodgers are good at), and one who should be judged on his hitting throughout his career, not on the short time with the Dodgers, admittedly not good.
Comment by Harry— October 28, 2010 #
I think most people here ARE judging him on his hitting throughout his career – his career OPS+ is 82. That is just flat out terrible. And he’s a mediocre at best fielder.
Comment by Dave— October 28, 2010 #
Bunting?……………………………..
Comment by DodgersKings323— October 28, 2010 #
I think Theriot is a plus fielder at 2B, a slightly below average base runner (the TOOTBLAN acronym was inspired by him), and a downright lousy hitter. He’s certainly an obvious non-tender candidate for a competent GM, as it would be inexcusable to pay him the $3.5m-$4m he would probably get in arbitration. Unfortunately, I don’t believe he’ll be non-tendered by the team, as Ned Colletti is the one making the individual payroll decisions and Theriot’s cost isn’t high enough to get McCourt’s scrutiny. He gets his uniform dirty and is white, gritty, and a veteran, which is why his sometimes ridiculous baserunning is glossed over by management. So he’s the perfect second baseman for the likes of Ned.
Comment by The Dude Abides— October 28, 2010 #
DeJesus to start at 2nd? Sure if we don’t wanna win and we are simply waiting on a new owner. Blake, Loney, Martin, the guy or girl in LF, plus DeJesus. Wow can’t get much weaker than that.
Comment by Adonis— October 28, 2010 #
Ellis C, Mitchell 3B, Gibbons LF…………eeeeeek
Comment by DodgersKings323— October 28, 2010 #
Martin is still better than 80% of the starting catchers out there.
Comment by Alireza— October 30, 2010 #
Didn’t know catching was plagued by crop failure.
Comment by Native Angeleno— October 30, 2010 #
Maybe Orlando Hudson will come back?
I’m all for DeJesus getting a shot. If 2011 is going to be a non-contending year, I’d rather see what we have in the farm system.
Comment by Juan Pierre— October 28, 2010 #
Orlando Hudson said his Dodger experience was not great. He ain’t coming back. Torre stopped playing him a month or so after the All-Star Game Hudson played in, i guess because his wrist made him too porcelain. Or are there other better, real, reasons??? Anyone?
Comment by Native Angeleno— October 28, 2010 #
Since we’re stuck with Mattingly, and i don’t expect a lot this year because in my heart i want the lowest attendance at the Ravine since maybe 1967, i would like to see Mattingly slough off the Joe Torre-isms he’s been taught, like No Rookies Need Apply, bond with De Jesus as the rookies they both are, give him an enthusiastic shot, work with him, help him improve on his lack of team play-itis as we’re told he is so afflicted, and who knows, this could be his year to blossom.
That way the miniscule payroll—i do not believe Mr Ned—could be applied elsewhere than 2nd base, as in pitching. My fear is that Colletti traded for Theriot out of infatuation, and is ready to throw $3-5 mill at him and even ugh, multiple years. De Jesus would nullify those desires. I hope.
Why do i so often feel Ned fights the best interests of the Dodgers, as if we’ve got some kind of infiltrator from Bud Selig’s office picking the players??
Experience.
Comment by Native Angeleno— October 28, 2010 #
He secretly still works for the Giants, Jeff Kent knew this that’s why he tried to get him in….
Comment by DodgersKings323— October 29, 2010 #
Right, now watch Mr Ned the Talking Ass take Uribe off their hands, as if it would be some coup. The guy is ready to morph into Aundruw any week now. Ned can’t wait.
And watch Ned and McCourt fall all over themselves to congratulate Frisco should they finally pop the cherry, braindead to LA where we’d just as soon the whole thing go down unmentioned. Ned, please return there and don’t forget to take Frank with you.
Comment by Native Angeleno— October 30, 2010 #
Uribe ,scutaro or hudson c’mon people this is the l.a dodgers. im starting to get fustrated !1988 thats seems like a long time ago i hope that 08′-09′ wasn’t r best shot and we let it get away?marlins have one twice redsox have not only won one but two ! the rays ,rockies,rangers have played in a a w.s and even worse mother f@&#;$g have played in three and r up 2-0 shit!(sorry im trying 2 keep it pg 4 all the youn l.a fans)
Comment by Pete guerrero— October 29, 2010 #
HG freekin H hhhhmmmm.surprise surprise surprise or is it?baldheaded reject aka Ross takes deep doc twice in game 1 and is nlcs mvp.Burell was so horrible it look like he was done and guess what his the midgets starting lf?Torres has been in the minors allmost his whole career now his the starting cf hhhhmmmm.Frankestein aka bonds shows up in sf 4 game 3 vs phils hhhmmm.midgets pitchers held utley and howard to 1 rbi?huff comes out of nowhere to lead team in hr hhhhmmmm.one more thing msti why would selig tell or sugest guillen to be left of roster before playoffs?
Comment by Pete guerrero— October 29, 2010 #
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