I’m More Disappointed In Hiroki Kuroda Than I Thought I’d Be
July 30, 2011 at 5:53 pm | Posted in Hiroki Kuroda | 83 Comments
As you’ve no doubt heard, Hiroki Kuroda has informed the Dodgers he will not be waiving his no-trade clause, and thus will be staying with the club for the rest of the season. I have to say, I’m pretty disappointed in that. Don’t get me wrong; I’m a big fan of Kuroda’s. Choosing to exercise his option to stay is well within his rights, and I certainly understand and respect the view of those like Jon Weisman (and, I must say, a surprising amount of Dodger fans, at least among those who post on message boards) who see Kuroda’s decision to stay amongst the turmoil as a refreshing change of pace. I get all of that, and from a human interest point of view, it’s commendable.
Unfortunately, I look at it from more of a “wanting my team to win” point of view, and from that standpoint, it’s hard not to think that Kuroda has hurt the chances to do that, even if only in a small way. A few weeks ago, I noted that I would be more than okay with keeping Kuroda to soak up some innings over the last few months if the deal was just going to be a salary dump, with little in the way of talent coming back. Yet as dominoes have begun to fall over the last few days, we’ve seen that this particular trade season is shaping up as a clear seller’s market. Look at what Toronto was able to do in exchange for some relievers and eating a bad contract. Look how much the Orioles got for 36-year-old Koji Uehara, or the Mets for two months of Carlos Beltran, or the reported return for Ubaldo Jimenez if that goes through. With Detroit, St. Louis, and Cleveland (maybe) all having picked up starters, that left the Red Sox, Yankees, and Rangers to fight over Kuroda, the clear top remaining starter. That’s an enviable position to be in.
I know rumors are just that, but when the Dodgers reportedly asked the Yankees for starter Ivan Nova and one of their three quality catching prospects, several baseball writers I respect greatly tweeted that they didn’t think that was enough of a return, even if the Yankees balked at it. The Dodgers were reportedly even scouting Tiger 3B prospect Nick Castellanos, who they almost certainly weren’t going to get, but at least they were shooting high. As the market took shape, my initial misgivings that the prospects may not be worth the effort turned into a feeling that the Dodgers could really get someone who would make a difference for the future. Not a superstar, of course, but at least a solid starter and perhaps a lottery ticket at one of the positions where the Dodgers have little depth.
Instead, we have 8-10 more starts of Kuroda to look forward to, and that might be it if he decides to go back to Japan after the season. I know some will be happy with that, saying that it proves he’s “true blue” or makes the club better for the last two months, but I don’t really see what that accomplishes. At the end of the season, his current 6-13 record will be something like 8-17, and the team will still be several games under .500 and double-digit games out of a playoff spot. Having Kuroda around, or not, was not going to change the fortunes of the 2011 club. Trading him might have helped future versions of the club, teams he’ll have been long retired from, and while I’m glad he enjoys being a Dodger enough to invoke his no-trade clause, he could have also gone on a two-month road trip somewhere and re-signed in Los Angeles the day after the season ended, if he chose. His gain, short-term, is probably our loss, long-term, and it’ll be a bit hard for me to watch his next start without that thought in the back of my mind.
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A+ Mike, I couldn’t agree more.
Comment by Gibby's Limp— July 30, 2011 #
Agreed 100 % Mike. Kuroda could have gotten us a nice piece and returned to LA next season, but instead we end up with the same old holes to fill and no more better off then we were.
Comment by Justin— July 30, 2011 #
I blame Ned. Why, I don’t know it just makes me feel better. Two things that can’t happen for me fast enough. Mark Cuban, our new owner & Alex Anthopoulos, our new general manager.
Comment by Doug Harris— July 30, 2011 #
Ditto. A sad day, in a minor way.
Comment by Rob McMillin— July 30, 2011 #
look at the bright side rumor is Furcal to the Cardinals, so we can plan on seeing the return of Ocatvio Dotel in a Dodger unifrom!
Comment by dodgers66— July 30, 2011 #
I don’t think we were gonna much for a 36 year old rental anyway. If the Yankees had offered Montero or someone of that caliber, then I’d be a little mad. That wasn’t the case.
Comment by Kemp for MVP— July 30, 2011 #
How do you know what was offered?
Comment by Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— July 30, 2011 #
There was a espn report that the yankees indicated montero was off the table for anyone being discussed. With martin showing exactly who he is i’m sure the yanks will be holding all their catching prospects.
Comment by west coast ram— July 30, 2011 #
Ah, but the problem here is that Montero isn’t a catching prospect. :)
Comment by Crpls Duck— July 31, 2011 #
Did you see what they got for Ubaldo Jimenez??? Kuroda (albeit, not on Jimenez’s level) was probably the 2nd best pitcher on the market. Ned was asking for a pretty good pitcher, a catcher (probably not Montero) and another prospect.
Comment by Doug Harris— July 30, 2011 #
Yeah, I understand the guy but I’m very disappointed. And seeing as how we didn’t send any cash to STL and they’re paying all of Furcal’s remaining salary, it looks like we’re getting back a non-prospect in a strict salary dump. Also, from the general tone of your post, I think you meant “re-signed” in the third line from the bottom instead of “resigned,” right? I’m only asking for clarification because the two words have opposite meanings.
Comment by The Dude Abides— July 30, 2011 #
Is that true? I had read that the Dodgers were sending cash to STL.
Yes, did mean re-sign.
Comment by Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— July 30, 2011 #
I thought I saw it in a Gurnick tweet, but things may have changed from this afternoon.
Comment by The Dude Abides— July 30, 2011 #
MIke, come on, dont you think the team is better next year with Kuroda? we shouldnt have to pin all our hopes for prospects on Kuroda’s shoulders. we should be able to trade someone else whos more expendable for a prospect or two. although I do understand your frustrations. the team does need to rebuild their farm system, and we need prospects. maybe Furcal will be able to get us a decent prospect? well see. but I think this is a big win for Kuroda. hes happy here. despite all the issues. his loyalty is ralry seen these days among modern day players. I know you might think this is illogical or sentimental, but watching Kuroda pitch for another team would just be too painful to see. it just wouldnt be right. Kuroda should be a Dodger forever.
Comment by format— July 30, 2011 #
Is the team better next year with him? Sure. So if he wanted to be here, tell him that he’s more than welcome to re-sign in the winter.
I also hear you about sentimentality, I just have a hard time with the “Dodger forever” idea about a guy who’s been here for 3.5 years and didn’t debut until like 34. This isn’t Kemp or Kershaw.
Comment by Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— July 30, 2011 #
^ This
Comment by Gibby's Limp— July 30, 2011 #
Hes the exception to that. even though hes been with the team since 2008, because he chose to play for the Dodgers. he chose to move here and join the Dodger culture. and hes shown immense loyalty. I think weve all known for a while now that Kuroda only wants to pitch for the Dodgers. and because of this is why he should wear blue forever. plus he is loved by all fans. Kemp, Kershaw, Ethier, Bills, also should wear blue forever. I do greatly understand and respect your viewpoint though. im one of those old school sentimental dodger fans I guess.
Comment by format— July 30, 2011 #
Even though I totally disagree with you, I completely understand where you’re coming from, it’s a very valid viewpoint. Which is not always the case when I disagree with someone, ha.
Comment by Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— July 30, 2011 #
Yeah we should be able to turn our useless turds into prospects not one of the few players with trade value I hear they were beating down the door to get at Rod Barajas, for example.
Comment by Joe P.— July 30, 2011 #
Absolute BS.
Name a concrete trade prospect that the Yankees or Red Sox were SERIOUS about trading for Kuroda, then I will agree with you.
But you or nobody else can not.
bluecrewfan
Comment by Rob— July 30, 2011 #
Nor can you. So you have no idea what was offered. From everything we heard, it would have been at least one legitimate prospect.
Comment by Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— July 30, 2011 #
One legit prospect? Like who? Dioner Navarro?
Comment by GG— July 30, 2011 #
I’d have liked to see some decent prospects come back for the future too, but if you’re ever feeling disappointed in Kuroda, just think of the game where he took a laser off the noggin and those feelings will quickly disappear. The guy is a badass and he wants to be a Dodger…can’t really get too disappointed in that, whether it hurts the club or not.
Comment by Wil— July 30, 2011 #
that is a very good point, thanks
Comment by dodgers66— July 30, 2011 #
The more I think about it the more I realize…Of course this would happen to the Dodgers this season! I don’t see anything positive happening until McCourt AND Colletti are both out the door.
Kuroda (if being the true “team player” that he is) should have sacked up, accepted to a trade and netted us at least one true prospect. Who knows? He might end up with a ring for only a couple months worth of work. IMO what this shows is selfishness and nothing more.
.
Comment by Justin— July 30, 2011 #
There’s a reason players get no-trade clauses. It’s the only real control they have. If a team doesn’t want to honor them, they should sign contracts that have those stipulations. I lost interest in the Kuroda saga when it became clear that the Dodgers were primarily talking to Boston and New York. (I would have welcomed him in Arizona.) However, he doesn’t owe the team anything other than his services. It’s not his responsibility to disrupt his life to make up for poor management decisions that lead to a depleted farm system.
Comment by azchomskyite— July 30, 2011 #
I agree. The state the Dodgers are currently in is 100% the fault of ownership and management, not Kuroda. Is he being selfish? Maybe. But that’s his right and that’s what no trade clauses are for…to protect yourself and your family’s stability. He’s a pitcher, not a GM. His job is to go out and pitch to help his team win, not to bow out when things go bad to try and bring in prospects for the future. The disappointment lies with the mismanagement of the club. Kuroda wanting to be with his family in LA and not disrupt their lives and also remaining faithful to the only MLB team he has played for is honorable imo. Personally, I prefer to focus my displeasure on Colletti and McCourt, the real culprits in the sad state of this team.
Comment by Wil— July 30, 2011 #
I don’t blame Kuroda for doing what he thinks is right for him, but I still feel disappointed, not in him, but for my own selfish desires as a Dodger fan to see the team improve in the future.
Comment by willie— July 30, 2011 #
Definitely. Especially with what could have been obtained. Think I’m just so used to being let down this year that nothing really phases me at this point. I’m actually glad the team is starting to win now because it’s really all that’s keeping me interested in this season right now…it’s sad to say.
Comment by Wil— July 30, 2011 #
I completely agree.
Comment by cornchips88— July 30, 2011 #
C’mon, you actually expect something to go the Dodger’s way?
Comment by KI— July 30, 2011 #
FUCK Kuroda. Three years is nothing, screw his loyalty bull shit. Probably just too inconvenient for his reportedly anal routined Life.
Comment by Tripp— July 30, 2011 #
LOL…that’s some impressive trolling, especially the capitalization of the last word.
Comment by The Dude Abides— July 30, 2011 #
now that hiroki kuroda isn’t going to be traded the red sox are turning to rich harden….and they’re about to get him for lars anderson…kuroda is sooo much better than harden….if we would’ve traded him and he would’ve waived his no trade clause we could’ve gotten will middlebrooks or somebody else
Comment by GP— July 30, 2011 #
Wow, had not seen the Lars bit. Unreal.
Comment by Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— July 30, 2011 #
Lars AND a PTBNL. Thanks, Hiroki.
Comment by Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— July 30, 2011 #
now furcal has agreed to go to the cardinals
Comment by GP— July 30, 2011 #
Please… Lars Anderson was there for the taking with Adrian Gonzalez firmly implanted at 1B with the Sox. No big deal.
Comment by GG— July 30, 2011 #
Looks like the Harden to Red Sox deal is dead too. Let’s be honest. Neither the Sox nor the Yanks are in any rush to make any deals unless it blows them away so the notion that Kuroda could have gotten us a legit MLB-ready prospect is/was pure speculation at best.
Comment by GG— July 30, 2011 #
Reportedly A’s close to getting Lars Anderson for Rich Harden. Would have happily took that for Hiroki. Can’t help but assume we coulda got more than that as well.
Comment by Tripp— July 30, 2011 #
“The more I think about it the more I realize…Of course this would happen to the Dodgers this season! I don’t see anything positive happening until McCourt AND Colletti are both out the door.
Kuroda (if being the true “team player” that he is) should have sacked up, accepted to a trade and netted us at least one true prospect. Who knows? He might end up with a ring for only a couple months worth of work. IMO what this shows is selfishness and nothing more.”
You can;t be serious. A true Dodger would have waived his no trade clause to facilitate a trade to either the redsox or yankees for a player never to be named?..
What am I missing here????
bluecrewfan
Comment by Rob— July 30, 2011 #
This whole idea of a “true Dodger” kills me. We sound like idiot Yankee fans trying to decide if ARod is a “true Yankee”, without realizing he’s one of the 3 best 3B in history.
Comment by Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— July 30, 2011 #
Kuroda goes to NYY or BOS and provides at LEAST one true prospect. Then, comes right back to LA with an even stronger team for 2012 hopefully with a new GM and new owner. I dreamed a dream once, but now that dream is gone from me. I’m not mad at Kuroda for staying but I thought he would see the bigger picture.
Comment by Justin— July 30, 2011 #
Sorry Mike. But I won’t villify Kuroda. McCourt and Colletti created this mess. Kuroda has a NTC, and he exercised it.
Also, we all need to consider that the team hasn’t given up on this season yet, unlike most of us fans. I bet the guys in the clubhouse LOVE the fact he chose to stay. He’s a Dodger – and while I understand wanting to get something for him in a lost season, I will not join in with this.
Comment by kyle— July 30, 2011 #
Yeah, not trying to vilify him. And it’s his personal decision, so he has every right to make this choice. If it was me, maybe I’d have done the same thing. As a fan, it’s disappointing though.
Comment by Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— July 30, 2011 #
As a fan, I absolutely understand the disappointment. I wish we could have gotten something for him. I just think it’s important for us not to make him out to be part of the problem.
Comment by kyle— July 30, 2011 #
I am certain there is a certain comfort factor to his decision. He does not speak English, only knows the Dodgers, and is comfortable with LA, which is why he re-signed in the off season for less money. If I were in his shoes, I might have made the same decision.
In any event, I am kind of happy he is staying. He’s a gamer, consummate pro, and very likable. I hope he re-signs again.
Comment by Carl— July 30, 2011 #
Mike, isn’t it a little more appropriate to direct your ire to Ned Colletti? He’s the one that approved Kuroda’s request for a no-trade clause. I can understand being disappointed that we missed a chance to acquire a solid prospect or two, but ultimately, I’d blame Uncle Ned for handing out a no-trade to the one tradeable guy on the roster.
Comment by ProvenVeteranLeaders— July 30, 2011 #
In this particular case, you could argue that Kuroda doesn’t sign a one-year deal without a no-trade clause. That said, I think I’ve done more than my share of Ned-bashing over the years.
Comment by Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— July 30, 2011 #
Yah it is kinda disappointing cause it looks like we could’ve gotten some pretty good prospects. But look on the bright side though. At least we have someone to fill in when we have to start cutting down rubby de la rosa’s innings. Also we’ll probably have the inside track to re-sign him for next year.
Comment by Brian R— July 30, 2011 #
A more positive note from tonight’s game…
Matt Mother F***ing Kemp!
Comment by Justin— July 30, 2011 #
In the offseason, I had assumed he’d be gone, or at least we’d have to do a Lillyesque contract to keep him. When he re-signed on those terms, I had to assume that he really, really wanted to pitch for the Dodgers. And so I can’t be too surprised at this news.
Now back to reading The Boys of Summer as a balm for having to watch this year.
Comment by David Milstead— July 30, 2011 #
I’m reading that book too!!
Comment by Bip— July 31, 2011 #
I’m disappointed we won’t be able to get any future players for him, but I’m not disappointed in Hiroki Kuroda. That’s kind of ridiculous actually, in my opinion.
Comment by Bip— July 31, 2011 #
You guys have an emotional, albeit short memory as to why Kuroda signed for one mor year this year….FAMILY….his wife and mostly, his daughters, wanted to stay in LA this year rather than return to Japan (an option he was content with). As someone noted previously, Kuroda is just protecting his family! If he was a 2-month rental somewhere, his family would have more difficulty in having the freedom to make the same decision for next year.
It also probably didn’t hurt that Torre was gone, as he was certifiably clueless on how to handle a pitching staff (the same idea applies to Ted Lilly’s reason for staying).
So leave Kuroda alone…he’s a good pitcher simply trying to earn a living and be a good Dad at the same time… I think he may return to Japan next year, dependent upon a Family agreement and discussion.
very
Comment by SaintNick— July 31, 2011 #
my heart is bleeding
Comment by Juan Pierre— July 31, 2011 #
Mike, I gotta agree with you. If Kuroda hadn’t complained about the lack of offensive support he has received, I would say fine, he is happy in LA and that is his choice, but he has made comments that he wishes he was getting more support and he had the opportunity to go to a team who has some offensive firepower and yet passes. Mind you, if he complains in the future about this fact, it will be hypocritical and I will have to regard his decision as selfish. That being said, there is a part of me that is happy that Ned didn’t get a chance to dazzle us. I was getting the scary feeling we would get back Andruw Jones or the shade of JD Drew for Kuroda. For all of this talk of prospects, Ned was going to futz up the deal anyway.
I mean, we give the Cardinals Rafael Furcal and $4 million for another minor league outfielder. Ned continues to amaze me with his rampant stupidity. I am surprised other GM’s don’t hammer at our door to do deals with Ned.
Comment by grabarkewitz— July 31, 2011 #
Shoulda got Pujols
Comment by Juan Pierre— July 31, 2011 #
Well, at least it’s not a complete salary dump for Furcal. We’re paying about $2.5 million of Raffy’s $3.9 million remaining salary. Looks like Castellanos is sort of a Kyle Russell clone, without Russell’s defense.
Comment by The Dude Abides— July 31, 2011 #
I see a guy who doesn’t want to move and just doesn’t really care about the team (prospects) or baseball (playoff contender) he’s probably going back to Japan next year. As you say, if he did care he would get us some prospects then re-sign next year with us.
Comment by DodgersKings323— July 31, 2011 #
Just traded trayvon Robinson :o
Comment by gregg— July 31, 2011 #
Nooooooo
Comment by TC— July 31, 2011 #
that was my reaction..but toned down
Comment by GP— July 31, 2011 #
mike, you were right…ned did the dumbest move in the world…he traded trayvon robinson..im pretty sure
Comment by GP— July 31, 2011 #
Details: the Red Sox get Bedard and outfield prospect Trayvon Robinson, the Dodgers get Tim Federowicz, Juan Rodriguez, and Steven Fife. Joshua Fields and Chih-Hsien Chiang went somewhere. We’ll clear it up when possible.
Comment by gregg— July 31, 2011 #
I am FLOORED.
And working on a new post. GOOD GOD.
Comment by Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— July 31, 2011 #
There is mass confusion on all this. ESPNBoston is saying Trayvon is an Angels prospect (gotta love East Coast ignorance). When all is said and done… ouch.
Comment by Chris Jackson— July 31, 2011 #
Hey Ned! You just couldn’t let the deadline go by without pissing us off huh?!
Comment by Justin— July 31, 2011 #
i don’t give a shit about getting a catcher in the deal…i just wanted trayvon to come up to the bigs to take over the left field job….and keep that job for the years to come…ned i fucking hate you
Comment by GP— July 31, 2011 #
Red Sox get: Erik Bedard, Joshua Fields
Dodgers get: Tim Federowicz, Juan Rodriguez, Stephen Fife
Mariners get: Trayvon Robinson
Comment by GP— July 31, 2011 #
god dammit!!!!
Comment by Wes— July 31, 2011 #
Mariners also got Chih-Hsien Chiang from Boston.
Comment by Justin— July 31, 2011 #
why couldn’t we give up somebody like withrow or martin?!?!
Comment by GP— July 31, 2011 #
There’s still time for Ned to buy more magic beans today, so don’t give up hope that he can give everyone with any potential away.
Comment by Bill Grabarkewitz— July 31, 2011 #
Mattingly didn’t get to finish his sentence earlier. He meant to say “We’ll see Trayvon Robinson at some point this year…starting for another team while the rest of the league looks at Ned Colletti and just laughs and laughs.”
Comment by MaxPower— July 31, 2011 #
http://www.soxprospects.com/players/federowicz-tim.htm
Comment by GP— July 31, 2011 #
GREAT, he projects as a backup MLB catcher.
Comment by west coast ram— July 31, 2011 #
you missed the part where it says “potential as a second-division starter.” That’s what’s making sense right now, unfortunately.
Comment by David Milstead— July 31, 2011 #
It will be interesting from here on out to see if Sands spends more time in LF or 1B for the Topes. This could have ramifications as far as the future of guys like Gwynn and Loney, too.
Still, I’m gonna miss having Tray around. He was a great kid, strikeouts and all. Hopefully he’ll get his shot with Seattle this September. Lord knows they can use the offense.
Oh, and the Topes’ playoff hopes (which I know mean little to those of you in LA, but it’s a big deal here in ABQ) are now officially on life support. Not that they weren’t before this, but subtract two of the team’s best players, replace them with crap (De Jon won’t promote anybody from Chattanooga, it seems), and watch Round Rock’s veteran-laden lineup run away.
Comment by Chris Jackson— July 31, 2011 #
And I just realize that Tacoma comes to ABQ on Weds. Unless the M’s add Tray to the big-league roster now, looks like I’ll get some in-person reaction. Can’t imagine he’s happy. He told me how excited he was when the Dodgers, his favorite team growing up, drafted him.
Comment by Chris Jackson— July 31, 2011 #
[...] with – I know I’d have been – and Robinson would have remained in the system. Remember when I said I was disappointed in Kuroda’s choice? Yeah, that paid off a lot quicker than I thought it [...]
Pingback by The Aftermath of the Trayvon Robinson Trade « Mike Scioscia's tragic illness— August 1, 2011 #
[...] of July he refused to come right out and say that he would or would not accept a trade. Finally, one day before the trading deadline, he announced that he would be exercising his right to reject a trade and stay in Los Angeles. [...]
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[...] imagine that a lot of Dodger fans are pretty upset that Kuroda left for an East Coast team after refusing a trade in July, particularly when the $10m deal he’s reportedly accepted is less than the $12m he made with [...]
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